Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative!

  • Discuss Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! in the General BMX Forum forum in area BMX-Forum Community; A BIT OF MARKET RESEARCH!!! Years spent in the world of engineering have given me the skills required to build top quality BMX frames, I have spent... ...
I

io247

New Member
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #1
A BIT OF MARKET RESEARCH!!!
Years spent in the world of engineering have given me the skills required to build top quality BMX frames, I have spent time aqquiring the neccesary equipment to produce my frames and i am about to take the plunge and start my own business.
I am based in the UK and will be able to offer totally handcrafted, strong, light frames that can be built to your requirments in a range of quality tubes, the cost of these frames will be at the higher end of the market but not much more expensive than a top of the range mass produced frame.
I could quite easily go into the mtb or road frame market but my soul has always been in BMX and this is were i want to be!

My question is this:
As the buyers of frames and components, would you be willing to pay a small premium for a high end product, especially one that is new and doesnt have the brand name yet.
My gut instinct says yes, some people will but i am biased. Other people have said that the majority of riders prefer a brand they know that has credibility (s&m as an example) and wont stray from what they know!
As a one person show, i will only be able to produce between 250 and 300 framesets per year as a max so i am not in it for the money, its more about living the dream.

your feedback will be appreciated, and will play a big part in my decision to pursue it further.

BEST REGARDS

MARK H (steal is real)
 
johnuk

johnuk

New Member
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #2
I'm in the UK and want to do this as well

I want to make the lightest, strongest, cheapest (relatively) frames and forks possible. There are technologies used in MTB and race that just aren't used by BMX because so many of the companies are homegrown and the riders aren't turned on to their potential enough to demand it

I think it's perfectly possible to compete with the bigger companies price wise, but you'll need to use intelligence to do that - optimising all of your work so it requires the minimal number of steps and effort. I've seen other guys trying to start up with BMX parts and they don't understand that commercially sucessful companies usually trim everything they can out of the work flow (hopefully without compromising it) to get the product made as efficiently and cheaply as possible. Instead, they just choose A method of doing it and then try to charge a crazy amount to cover their own mistakes and waste

People like Eastern have bulk buying power, but I doubt that'll have such a huge impact. They also have the option of shipping to China, which is were you may be more likely to miss out

Branding is incredibly important in BMX, so trying to charge more than someone like Fly without a known name is blasting your own feet I expect. The only way round that may be innovation over emulation. Fly have the gorgeous colour schemes and clean look going on. So you'd need to offer something everyone else isn't. One thing that's interesting about things like Fly is that they don't always choose the best or cheapest method of building something. Their brakes, for example, seem to be machined from solid stock. That wastes material and takes forever. Neither is it entirely necessary given the design. But they do look clean - and that's arguably what makes people like my mate automatically choose them even though they cost him more. If all you do is make another stem identical to the standard and then charge more for it, you'll probably regret ordering all the blanks.

Where abouts are you in the UK? I love metalwork, it's better than being baked a lot of the time, definitly more constructive :wink:

You'll need to be careful with this thread, too much commercial abuse of the board will probably get it locked
 
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monkeysan

monkeysan

New Member
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #3
I would honestly be prepared to pay more for something I knew was going to last, rather than buy a cheap mass-produced piece of crap that I would have to replace again and again.
 
Matty2

Matty2

New Member
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #4
i spose for me id have to hear of your reputation, like if your frames are well made etc..
i say go for it man, it can either end up really good or end up bad.
good luck if you do
 
M

Marcus Poopy

Guest
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #5
i dont think that many people would buy your frame/fork over most mass produced frames for a few reasons:

-i know i can trust my S&M LTF to no break on me randomly, even though it is VERY light.
-most frames nowadays are heat treated
-mass produced frames are cheaper
-you wont be able to have any sort of warrenty
-shipping price (i live in norway, so i guess it wouldnt be bad for me, but north americans etc.)
-frames will probably end up being very generic geometry and weight. (74.5HT, 21'' TT, 71ST, approx 5lbs, no special features(wave/teardrop/ovalized downtube, integrated seatclamp, small dropouts, wishbone chainstay or any gussets)
-you've never made/sold a frame before, so most would not trust it.
-mass produced frames are put under months, some even years of testing the strength and the feel of the frame.

(same goes for forks for everything)

although if you do decide to make some prototype frames, i would be willing to test it out for you :wink:
 
B

barspindave

Guest
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #6
sounds gr8 m8y! i would be prepared to pay a bit extra for the following resons;
- its going to be a high quality product, not sum sht from tiwan made by a blind 12 year old girl.
- Its made in the uk!
Its a frame made to my exact specifications.
- U sound like ur a gr8 bloke!
gd luck with it m8, u might hear from me soon!
 
Biggles

Biggles

New Member
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #7
One day in a few months time, when i've saved up my money, i'd be very very interested in getting a frame from you.

Cause depending on where you are in the UK, i'd drive to your workshop to see the frame at various points in it's manufacturing cause it'd be really interesting! Plus i'm sure you'd like to see direct feedback for your frame, cause i'd probably drive up there on the day it gets finished with my bike parts so i'd build it up right there and ride it and give you feedback straight away!
 
Chris

Chris

New Member
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #8
this isn't news. Moved to general.
 
D

D.Mills

Guest
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #9
I would be intrested in paying a small pemium, as long as all the strength and weight ratio techniques are used. double butted heat treated ect.
 
PBJ

PBJ

New Member
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #10
Offset thickness tubing is a plus, I trust you to judge the highest economical grade of tubing

honestly, I would be content just to see something unique, that hasn't been done before, maybe a new chainstay design, different drop outs, brake mounts etc

flared seattube,down tube, and chainstays/wishbone at the bottom bracket for more weld area

spanish bb, or maybe the new spanish 2 bb from fly

removable gyro tabs

if your doing small runs, maybe you could send it in to a larger bmx company to be heat treated, work out a gsport-odyssey deal, gsport was a small rider owned company and since odyssey has been working with them we've seen great things from both, even if they haven't come out yet (cough ratchet/g-coaster cough cough)
 
Marcelwk

Marcelwk

New Member
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #11
I dont think many people will buy it..

Small companies should go with small prices at first so that is their advantage above large brands. This will get their name known to people and then they can start raising the prices. But an unknown company with high prices wont run, cuz nobody knows if the frames will hold up. People want to know for sure that they buy a quality product and are more likely to buy a popular frame. Not just because it's popular and therefore cool:p also because they know how others experienced that particular bike part.
So a frame of an unknown company, with a big pricetag, will sell pretty bad I think..
 
PBJ

PBJ

New Member
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #12
Better to build quality and have it unknown than to build poorly and have a rep for crap parts a la eastern
 
Chris

Chris

New Member
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #13
get an awesome team who can test your product to the fullest. then when everyone finds out what they're running they'll think YEAH!
 
PBJ

PBJ

New Member
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #14
well theres a good pool of talented, unknown riders here, break out the sponsorship tapes everyone! lol!
 
J

johnny homeless

New Member
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #15
i dont think that many people would buy your frame/fork over most mass produced frames for a few reasons:

-i know i can trust my S&M LTF to no break on me randomly, even though it is VERY light.
-most frames nowadays are heat treated
-mass produced frames are cheaper
-you wont be able to have any sort of warrenty
-shipping price (i live in norway, so i guess it wouldnt be bad for me, but north americans etc.)
-frames will probably end up being very generic geometry and weight. (74.5HT, 21'' TT, 71ST, approx 5lbs, no special features(wave/teardrop/ovalized downtube, integrated seatclamp, small dropouts, wishbone chainstay or any gussets)
-you've never made/sold a frame before, so most would not trust it.
-mass produced frames are put under months, some even years of testing the strength and the feel of the frame.

(same goes for forks for everything)

although if you do decide to make some prototype frames, i would be willing to test it out for you :wink:
ding ding ding!

totally agree with all of the above. and would add: the problem with a lot of these uk made, handcrafted frames is that you end up paying £300 for something with weighs 7lbs with a regular headtube and usa bb. no one's gonna buy that over a mass produced frame.

that said, if you can produce a frame that's as good or better than the mass produced ones out there, with all the same features, for a similar price to a high end frame, i would be very interested. from a personal perspective, i've only ridden usa made frames for a long time, probably due to some kind of outmoded principle. i'd rather buy something that was hand made in the uk or usa, and i like that small manufacturers will make a frame personally for you.

i think the only advantage of your frames over mass produced ones would be the custom/personal thing. be aware that most established manufacturers that still produce their frames in the usa (s&m, fbm, t-1, solid, standard, etc.) will make a custom frame for you, or at least make changes to one of their stock frames to your specification, so you will be competing with them. i ride a custom t-1 at moment and it ended up costing me about £200 with shipping.

ok, that's my 2 pence worth. good luck man, i hope you get the business going and make it a success.
 
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johnuk

johnuk

New Member
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #16
i dont think that many people would buy your frame/fork over most mass produced frames for a few reasons:

-i know i can trust my S&M LTF to no break on me randomly, even though it is VERY light.
-most frames nowadays are heat treated
-mass produced frames are cheaper
-you wont be able to have any sort of warrenty
-shipping price (i live in norway, so i guess it wouldnt be bad for me, but north americans etc.)
-frames will probably end up being very generic geometry and weight. (74.5HT, 21'' TT, 71ST, approx 5lbs, no special features(wave/teardrop/ovalized downtube, integrated seatclamp, small dropouts, wishbone chainstay or any gussets)
-you've never made/sold a frame before, so most would not trust it.
-mass produced frames are put under months, some even years of testing the strength and the feel of the frame.

(same goes for forks for everything)

although if you do decide to make some prototype frames, i would be willing to test it out for you :wink:
I agree that a lot of that could come true, but it's also not for sure. It'd depend almost entirely on the person behind the work.

Heat treating isn't an issue - that's perfectly doable.

The geometry of the frame wouldn't be hard to change - neither would it be hard to improve on things like dropouts.

Weight could easily be less than commercial frames.

Welding standards could certainly be improved.

And as has already been pointed out, even by yourself, there is an army of beta-testers itching for a chance to try new free stuff right here

I can also think of other things to do with BMX parts that I can almost bet money on the bigger companies not being bothered with - since they're going for mass appeal rather than a more specialised group

I think one of the main problems is that the UK is being nailed with hyper inflation on just about every utility and service. Those costs factor into producing something here, as a matter of fact. If juice for the welder costs ten times more than it does in China, one can't charge the same price for the result, obviously.
 
mack_turtle

mack_turtle

New Member
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #17
it will take some time to gain the trust of this "market." some kids will buy anything, but you have to have some street credibility if you want to make it.
 
H

Hermes

New Member
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #18
lower price you have yourself a company there
 
B

ben

Guest
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #19
I have no brand loyalty as even my beloved animal bikes has done some stupid stuff

but would I shell out (I'm guessing) £400ish for a bespoke frame? no because the spec I want most loikely already exists
 
gttour2

gttour2

New Member
Your opinions are wanted, positive and negative! post #20
I agree with chris, find some good local kids t ride it, and rep about it for you. then everyone(will want one..if it's good
 

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