Creaking pedals

  • Discuss Creaking pedals in the BMX Bike Tech forum in area BMX-Forum Community; Hey all, Recently ive noticed that theres a creaking sound when im pedaling, and its only really when im into hard. Im positive its coming from the... ...
LukeyEL

LukeyEL

New Member
Creaking pedals post #1
Hey all,

Recently ive noticed that theres a creaking sound when im pedaling, and its only really when im into hard. Im positive its coming from the pedals, and its quite annoying cause there not that old. They are Oddy. Trail mix sealed pedals too.

Im sure its not the BB or sprocket/chain, but i could be wrong.

Any thoughts? Im really hoping they arent dodgy pedals, cause i bought them off dans ages ago, and have hardly used them, and would be a pain to return :(

Thanks in advance 8)
 
overkiller

overkiller

New Member
Creaking pedals post #2
Are you sure its not coming from the BB?
Take apart all the crank and bb and grease it up to make sure, then Spray WD40 over the axis on which the pedal spins, if tht makes sense? :p
 
LukeyEL

LukeyEL

New Member
Creaking pedals post #3
Take apart all the crank and bb and grease it ...
I'll try that, thanks.

..then Spray WD40 over the axis on which the pedal spins .... :p
And no that didnt make sense lol. Do u mean lube the pedal spindle with WD ?? Ive recently regreased the spindle ... not puttin WD in there !!

If that wasnt it, what do u mean ? :roll:

Thanks though :)
 
johnuk

johnuk

New Member
Creaking pedals post #4
never spray WD-40 near your axles, spindles or bearings

WD-40 is NOT a lubricant, it stands for Water Displacer - 40th formula. It was invented for the navy to rinse water out of joints. It leaves essentially zero lubricating film behind once the solvent fully evaporates

If you have to use a spray oil, use one with Teflon in it. Or better yet, use DuPont Multi-use dry film spray

You shouldn't use spray oils near bearings because they'll dissolve the grease packing inside. A lubicants ability to lubicate is based on how much pressure it takes to make it's molecules let go of each other and split apart, letting whatever is applying the pressure push it aside and make contact. To lubricate, the film has to withstand the maximum pressure it's subjected to. The thicker the lubricant, the higher the pressure it can hold off.

Pressure = Force / Area

The force is your body weight, so any connection that carries your weight through to the ground will have a higher pressure the smaller it's contact surface. Bearings have essentially pinpoint small contact surface areas, which is why they roll the way they do - but that means an equally huge contact pressure. Anything less than a grease from a tube is not going to hold up - it may as well not be there.
 
Last edited:
kheridr

kheridr

New Member
Creaking pedals post #5
its probly nothing really to serious. i would just say regrese al bearing in your crank,peadles and rear hub then tighten all your bolts. if that dosent work check for cracks by shoving a hose in your seat tube and look where the water is not ment to be coming out :D
 
LukeyEL

LukeyEL

New Member
Creaking pedals post #6
never spray WD-40 near your axles, spindles or bearings

WD-40 is NOT a lubricant, it stands for Water Displacer - 40th formula. It was invented for the navy to rinse water out of joints. It leaves essentially zero lubricating film behind once the solvent fully evaporates

If you have to use a spray oil, use one with Teflon in it. Or better yet, use DuPont Multi-use dry film spray

You shouldn't use spray oils near bearings because they'll dissolve the grease packing inside. A lubicants ability to lubicate is based on how much pressure it takes to make it's molecules let go of each other and split apart, letting whatever is applying the pressure push it aside and make contact. To lubricate, the film has to withstand the maximum pressure it's subjected to. The thicker the lubricant, the higher the pressure it can hold off.

Pressure = Force / Area

The force is your body weight, so any connection that carries your weight through to the ground will have a higher pressure the smaller it's contact surface. Bearings have essentially pinpoint small contact surface areas, which is why they roll the way they do - but that means an equally huge contact pressure. Anything less than a grease from a tube is not going to hold up - it may as well not be there.
Cheers mate, i didnt know about the history of WD !! Everything else im already aware of lol, but seriously thanks for posting :D

its probly nothing really to serious. i would just say regrese al bearing in your crank,peadles and rear hub then tighten all your bolts. if that dosent work check for cracks by shoving a hose in your seat tube and look where the water is not ment to be coming out :D
Yeh im going to strip it all down tomoro and re-grease, loctite and tighten everything.

I stripped, cleaned and re-assembled my cassette this arvo, but discovered that my hub is rooted :? So ill be getting a new rear wheel soon (my rim is running way off true also).

And im not a fan of the idea of filling my frame with water lol, has anyone seriously done that ?? Using air would be more effective, could find finer cracks.
 
overkiller

overkiller

New Member
Creaking pedals post #7
sorry about my WD40 comment, i got confused with what was creaking :( :p

Ive made the mistake of letting WD40 go into my BB and damn it went horribly wrong haha!
 
Ace24

Ace24

New Member
Creaking pedals post #8
I am dealing with this too, so I went to take off my cranks and such, but I have a sealed BB. So there was nothing to regrease, unless I just slopped it on the outside. should I pop out the bearing cases and take them apart or what?
 
S

screwglue

Guest
Creaking pedals post #9
I think you guys are making it more complicated than it really is. Most likely you have some stock pedals because most of my friends had this problem when they had there stock pedals on there bike. I'm guessing its from some sort of flexing in the axle. Wait no, I don't remember it might be the chain lol. Sorry I haven't been outside riding as much so I forgot a lot.
 
johnuk

johnuk

New Member
Creaking pedals post #10
I am dealing with this too, so I went to take off my cranks and such, but I have a sealed BB. So there was nothing to regrease, unless I just slopped it on the outside. should I pop out the bearing cases and take them apart or what?
Essentially, yes

For the sake of simplicity, the actual shiney cylinderical things the axle slides through we'll called the cartridges.

Those can be fixed into shells that then go into the frame.

I didn't think it would be possible when I first tried it, but they'll slide out of the shells without a lot of pain.

I have Euros and could do it in two ways. The first was to take the BB apart and then put a tube spacer on the axle that was way too long. When I tighten up the screw fit shells, the spacer pushes the cartridges out

Alternatively, take the shells and place them between something like the open jaws of a vice - protect them from getting raped with some paper or cloth. You want the jaws hold the sides of the shell so the cartridge can fall out. Use a tube spacer or ideally a piece of wood that's as wide as you can but that'll still rest on the cartridges. Tap them, gently and in a straight line applying force all over their faces, out of the shells.

Use something pointy and sharp to unclip the seals - a sewing needle or syringe blade should work.

Inside are the ball bearings trapped in their cages, which stops them all falling out and keeps them evenly spaced around the races.

Rinse them with solvent (DCM, acetone, toluene, xylene - the last two are paint thinners, acetone is nail polish remover). If you don't have solvents, you can use hot water and soap - a boil them in a pan maybe. Blow them out and let them air dry for a while so you know they're dry - boiling water will heat them up and help, as will leaving them somewhere like on top of a radiator.

Next up, repack them with absolutely heaps of lithium, teflon or moly grease. Pack one side, snap it's seal back on and give it a spin on your finger. Then do the other side. Put so much grease in that it squidges out as you put the seals back on. Cake the bearings in grease externally, then wipe some around the inside of the shells and slide them back together - same as removing but easier

When you put the bracket back together, on the outside of the cartridges, where they face towards the sprocket and pedals, cover them in grease so it'll create a barrier as you fit things like the cone spacers - that should help prevent anything like road water (avec le grit) getting splashed into the bracket via the clearances

Did it to mine, works like a dream

When I get my hands on some special lithium grease I'm after, I may make a quick video of how to do this since a lot of people ask

I'm still not 100% certain why the cartridges end up creaking or popping due to lack of grease - and I've spent about a decade of my life already learning about machining and bearings. Their insides are machined to hundredths of a mm tolerances, so there's nothing in there to create irregular friction. But, when the grease is gone and they're under heavy loads, they do it. It may have something to do with the ball bearings slipping in the races. With that said, I am beginning a quest to resolve this reason starting now
 
Last edited:
LukeyEL

LukeyEL

New Member
Creaking pedals post #11
Well i might have solved my problem !!

On the way home from work this arvo i stopped and bought some good quality lithium based grease with the intention of stripping down my crank/bb setup and regreasing everything. When i got home i took the crank arms and sprocket off, but i noticed that when i spun the spindle in the BB it was quite harsh for relatively new sealed bearings. I got both the bearings out and that tube thingy and it turns out one of the bearing was spinning harshly and one was dead smooth. So i popped off the seals off both of them, and surprise surprise the rough one was almost dry, and the little grease there was brown. There was plenty of perfectly clean grease in the good one.

Im curious though, cause the seals were in good nic on both and didnt appear to be leaking at all, so ive got the bad feeling it was a shit bearing from new cause ive heard stories of brand new bearings being dry from the factory. Oh well, ill be getting 2 new bearings tomoro to replace them both.

If the new bearing/s and plenty of lube dont fix the problem ill concentrate on my pedals again :roll:

And JohnUK thanks for that wicked post :D Very informative. If you dont mind me asking, how old are you ? From the way u sed u've been learing about machining and bearings for 10 years, im guessing ur in ur mid to late twenties. And are u a fitter and/or machinist ?? Or a mechanical engineer or something ?? Im in the second year of my mech. engineering degree atm. I love being able to relate what im learning at uni to bikes :D and sounds like ur the same!!
 
johnuk

johnuk

New Member
Creaking pedals post #12
Good to hear

And good guess, I'm 24. I'm not a machinist (in that it's not my job), but I love everything engineering - my school gave me a virtually new CNC lathe when I was about 17 because health and safety meant they couldn't use it anymore - when I win the lottery, it's on to the 5-axis mills. I bought a MIG welder for my birthday when I was about 13 and a ridiculously sweet Harris oxy/acetylene set so I could teach myself to weld - we had fun sawing things up with the cutting torch and spent about 9 hours making a BBQ from an old boiler one Christmas eve in the snow at about 11pm

I'd be interested to know which of the bearings was out of grease. Some shells have two cartridges in each, so four cartridges in total

If yours is like that, and it was one of the inner cartridges, I'd be confused. If it was the outer ones, I'd guess the seal has been compromised by rain, road splashes or WD-40. Was it 100% free of grease? If it was, the machine at the factory might have just missed squirting the grease into it for some reason - but they will weigh the bearings as they leave as part of quality control and that would pick up the missing grease, if it was missing from the start that is.

If people are getting dry bearings from the factory, I would be worried about overall quality and how much you're paying, since it's not hard at all to make sure they're packed before shipping. And BMX stores are not impressively customer focused in my experience.
 
Last edited:
LukeyEL

LukeyEL

New Member
Creaking pedals post #13
Well got the new bearings today and put them in. Problem solved. Sound gone!! Im so glad that it wasnt my pedals.

John, what do u mean by the cartridges ?? To me a bearing comprises of and outer and inner race, balls or rollers (in case of roller bearing) and the cage (one method of retaining the balls, as in this case) which retains the balls. Theres two peices to the cage, one coming in from each side, and they connect in the gaps between the balls, locking the whole setup together. Oh and if there sealed bearings, theres the seals. And then theres needle, thrust, etc. bearings but no need to go into that now. Im thinking u might mean the cages? And the dead bearing was on the sprocket (RH) side. It wasnt completely dry, there was only a little bit there though and it was brown.

And that awesome u got a CNC for free, there worth heaps!! Seams ur heaps into ur metal work.

Thanks to everyone else who posted.

:D
 
Last edited:
johnuk

johnuk

New Member
Creaking pedals post #14
John, what do u mean by the cartridges ?? To me a bearing comprises of and outer and inner race, balls or rollers (in case of roller bearing) and the cage (one method of retaining the balls, as in this case) which retains the balls. Theres two peices to the cage, one coming in from each side, and they connect in the gaps between the balls, locking the whole setup together. Oh and if there sealed bearings, theres the seals. And then theres needle, thrust, etc. bearings but no need to go into that now. Im thinking u might mean the cages? And the dead bearing was on the sprocket (RH) side. It wasnt completely dry, there was only a little bit there though and it was brown.
I usually call the entire bearing a cartridge - both raceways, balls, cage and the rest.

Calling the whole thing a ball bearing tends to confuse people when I suggest they then grease the ball bearings in their bracket - they can think I mean just wipe grease over the outside of the raceways, which doesn't make much sense. So I use ball bearings for the actual balls inside the raceways.

I spoke to Enduro about this.

"Hello John

Yes, what happens is that rust forms in between the balls when they sit after riding (when the grease is washed out and moisture is left inside the bearing). The rust formed in between the balls is rough and so when you rotate the bearing again later, it feels indexed rolling over these patches. When you re-grease it, the grease breaks up these rusty patches and it all feels smooth again.

Here is a grease which is better at resisting water wash out and we have been using this year successfully:

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(nffc3r45buak2kfdlg3tj1ys)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=998016721

thanks, Matt"


It doesn't make much sense that the grease would wash out with just water, since it's so thick. But apparently, it is a problem - the high pressure in the bearings must help make it more easily removed with water. Enduro mentioned they were using a type of sticky, blue lithium called Marine Grease, made by CRC. When I opened my Enduro's, I found such a grease. I was opening them to replace the washed out grease though, so I'm not totally sure how water proof it really is.

DuPont make a series of lithium, teflon and molybdenum disulphide blended greases that are specifically designed for bearings. They're good enough for the mining industry, so they should be good for bikes. The Severe Service product has a thickener in it to stop it being washed out. DuPont commercialised Teflon, so they are the source of knowledge on everything slippery. Link
 
Last edited:
LukeyEL

LukeyEL

New Member
Creaking pedals post #15
O ok if ur meaning the entire bearing assembly is a cartridge, i have 2 only, one on each side.

And in regards to that email/letter u got, i disagree with what they are saying. If rust was forming inside the cartridge, there would be a point somehwere that has suffered a loss of surface finish and/or surface deteriation. This would mean the bearing will never properly run smooth again. At that point i'd say no to regreasing and re-using, for the price of new bearings id buy brand new ones just to be confident. Like today i bought 2 new bearings when i really only needed the one, i replaced them as a set just to be safe.

On a side note, when i got the new ones, i popped the seals off, cleaned out what grease was in there and re-packed it with the good quality lithium stuff i bought. The amount in there from factory was sufficient, but bare. I put a decent amount in, but not too much that it would drag or blow the seals out :D
 
johnuk

johnuk

New Member
Creaking pedals post #16
The raceways are such a precise fit, the amount of corrosion would only need to be on a microscopic scale for it to be something you could feel - because a microscopically close fit will be equally well jammed by a microscopic amount of junk in the way. The raceways are ground to their tolerance, so they're a lot more precise than they would be from a machining centre - grinding is the ultimate for accuracy.

Perhaps the oxide forms and produces a raised area. When the grease dissolves it, I would expect it leaves microscopic pits in the raceway, which are then filled with grease. The ball bearings could then roll over the pits without them being a problem.

I wouldn't stress too much about drag in the bearings, the pressure from your body and the energy of pedaling will cause the grease to thin out in use and even melt at the higher pressure areas.

I've seen skateboarders rinse their bearings out with WD-40 and then think it's amazing because they spin quickly when they flick them - that's just not the same kind of load they'll be under when they're standing on them
 
Last edited:
ruzakruzak

ruzakruzak

New Member
Creaking pedals post #17
You damn perfectionist, Johnuk :p
 
johnuk

johnuk

New Member
Creaking pedals post #18
One thing I think is interesting is that it takes some extremely expensive equipment to make cartridge bearings, yet Enduro seem to have selected an off the shelf grease for packing, and one that doesn't avoid washout all that well - as evidenced by my own bracket and the stream of complaints about noise from bottom brackets in this forum. You'd think if you were going to spend millions on bearing production, you'd have some pro testing of the greases going on - specially if you know it's a problem for bike use

You might like this video ----------------> Cartridge bearings being made
 
LukeyEL

LukeyEL

New Member
Creaking pedals post #20
....
Perhaps the oxide forms and produces a raised area. When the grease dissolves it, I would expect it leaves microscopic pits in the raceway, which are then filled with grease. The ball bearings could then roll over the pits without them being a problem.
.....
Yeh, well as u would know rust is porous, creating a greater volume which makes these raised areas. When the rust is dissolved/worn away, there will be a pit, or an area of many microscopic pits. I guess if these pits had grease in them as the ball ran over them, it would roll over as normal. For the rpm a bb bearing would reach, it would never matter. But if it were in a turbine, reaching speeds of up to 100,000 rpm, catastrophe!!! That and extreme temperatures are the reason they use ceramic bearings i guess.

And in these situations u HAVE to be a perfectionist, especially in aeronautical applications :roll:
 

New Topics

Top