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post #21 of 51

not every planet is getting warmer, a handful are, and the evidence against the sun causing it is overwhelming

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7327393.stm

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11650-climate-myths-global-warming-is-down-to-the-sun-not-humans.html

post #22 of 51

That is bullshit evidence.  To think that anything man can do on tiny Earth is more powerful than something as monstrous as the Sun is completely and utterly asinine.

 

There is, however, real evidence to argue successfully against the greenhouse gas theory.

 

Take Venus for example.  For years astronomers thought it was similar to Earth with cloud cover and even the possibility of dinosaurs roaming the surface.  They even thought Jupiter and Saturn were cold, frozen planets.  This was later disproven as they were discovered to be hot and steamy.  Venus was later found to be very hot as well.

 

This was ruled as an effect of greenhouse gases trapping the sun's heat on the surface of Venus.  However, this theory goes against the second law of thermodynamics that in a natural environment, heat cannot be forced from a cooler area (upper atmosphere/space) into a hotter one (surface).  The natural flow is, in fact, the opposite direction. 

 

It's also interesting to note that the surface temperature of Venus is exactly the same on the Sun-lit side as it is on the dark-side even though Venus has an extremely long day.  How does this happen when there is literally no wind whatsoever on the surface and in the middle atmosphere of Venus?  The Sun-lit side should be much hotter than the dark-side per greenhouse gas theory.  Earth, on the other hand, has jet streams and dynamic wind systems, but is still unable to keep the dark-side warm.  In fact the dark-side will drop as much as 12*-20*F.

 

Venus is covered in a thick cloud cover, blocking 98% of the sunlight that reaches the planet.  The surface of Venus is actually very dimly lit, like a flashlight with dying batteries.  How can all this heat be trapped here if it doesn't even reach the surface? It can't.  Obviously there are forces at work that we don't know of. 

 

There is no greenhouse effect on Venus.  This tells us that if it can't work on Venus, it can't possibly work on Earth where there are miniscule amounts of greenhouse gases compared to that of Venus.  Clearly, in a naturally occurring space environment there is no such thing as a greenhouse effect.

 

 

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post #23 of 51

Believing in man-caused global warming is like believing that warm water produces hurricanes.  It's moronic.

 

 

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post #24 of 51

I haven't read this thread in depth but did you just call bullshit on the BBC?

 

Zero Cool you've poo poo'd all over the most widely accepted theory. So what's your theory? 

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post #25 of 51
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Originally Posted by Mr.Sparkles View Post

I haven't read this thread in depth but did you just call bullshit on the BBC?

 

Zero Cool you've poo poo'd all over the most widely accepted theory. So what's your theory? 



his theory is that the sun is heating up causing the earth to heat up. oil companies spend billions of dollars every year trying to get people to believe this in the US, and they have been pretty successful compared to other countries

post #26 of 51
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Originally Posted by wikipedia.su View Post



his theory is that the sun is heating up causing the earth to heat up. oil companies spend billions of dollars every year trying to get people to believe this in the US, and they have been pretty successful compared to other countries


I never said the Sun was heating up.  Evidence shows the contrary, however there are other factors to consider in regard to heat transfer.  Heat transfer from the Sun to Earth is becoming more efficient (conductive) whilst the Sun is cooling.  How is this possible?  NASA spoke about an interstellar plasma cloud ('fluff' as they call it) just outside the solar system back in the late 1970s.  They again hinted at this in 2008 or 2009, saying almost exactly what they said back in the 70s.  This tells us they obviously know more about it, having studied it for the past 30 years, but they are withholding information as usual. 

 

Plasma is the never-mentioned 4th state of matter; it is an electrically charged gas and is one of the best conductors of electricity we know of.  When this moves between the Earth and the Sun, the electric flow from the Sun to Earth is amplified.  The effects could range anywhere from electrical grid failure to the warming of the planet to bizarre and record-breaking weather, that of which we are experiencing a lot of lately.  We live in an Electric Universe.  The basis of all life is electric. 

 

Let's be serious here.  Oil companies aren't stupid.  They know that people are going to buy oil no matter what as it is an integral part of the global economy.  Global warming is propagated as a distraction from pollution.  While everyone is focused on the trivial fact that Earth is warming up, the polluters (the real problem) are polluting rampantly.  They got you hook, line and sinker.  Better yet, they play both sides of the game.  They will pay to propagate global warming just as they will pay to argue against global warming.  Divide and conquer.

 

Let's also assume that the Earth is hundred of millions, if not billions, of years old.  To say that Earth has had a constant climate this whole time is a dangerous assumption as there is no way to truly know.  It's all speculation.  The last ice age just ended less than 10,000 years ago so our recorded history is merely a blip in time, and within that blip we have an even smaller blip of weather records.  We have no proof whatsoever that Earth isn't supposed to be warmer than it is, or that climate is ever-changing.  A real possibility is that we are simply returning to the mean; we are returning to temperatures from before the ice age.

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post #27 of 51

what evidence do you have that this plasma cloud theory is true

 

the idea that greenhouse gases are a distraction from pollution doesnt make sense either, because the EPA recently made c02 a pollutant. if the goal is to distract from pollution, how does this help them in that goal

 

oil companies and the like don't fund both sides of the global climate change discussion

 

scientists already have a pretty good idea of the global average temperature of the past and they've published this stuff. i posted this in the last global warming thread that showed that c02 levels were catastrophically high and are causing the release of more greenhouse gases, like methane which is trapped in ice.

post #28 of 51
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Originally Posted by wikipedia.su View Post

what evidence do you have that this plasma cloud theory is true

 

the idea that greenhouse gases are a distraction from pollution doesnt make sense either, because the EPA recently made c02 a pollutant. if the goal is to distract from pollution, how does this help them in that goal

 

oil companies and the like don't fund both sides of the global climate change discussion

 

scientists already have a pretty good idea of the global average temperature of the past and they've published this stuff. i posted this in the last global warming thread that showed that c02 levels were catastrophically high and are causing the release of more greenhouse gases, like methane which is trapped in ice.


I myself have no concrete evidence.  If you want that I suggest you send a letter to NASA... good luck hearing back from them, let alone getting the truth.  However, NASA did acknowledge that the plasma cloud exists and that we are moving into it.  Given the behavior of electricity in plasma, coupled with the facts global warming was first mentioned in the 70s and that the cloud was first publicly announced, I think it is fairly evident that there is much more positive correlation between global warming and the plasma cloud/sun than there is greenhouse gas.  There is no proof for either one, unfortunately.

 

How does that not help the them?!?!  While everyone is looking at CO2 as the biggest polluter, corporations and governments are still dumping nuclear waste in the oceans, computer landfills are becoming rampant in some parts of Asia, and batteries and the likes are being dumped in landfills here.  But oh no! the Earth is getting warmer!!!  **** the wildlife, **** the vegetation, **** the oceans and **** clean air.  The mother****in' Earth is a-heatin' up!  If they were doing what they do for you and me, nuclear power plants would have been banned from the start.

 

Oil companies most certainly fund both sides.  While the average schmuck is left confused with all the different information coming from all around, the polluters keep polluting.

 

They have an estimated temperature.  You can't assume it's entirely accurate without actually being there.  It's nothing more than an 'educated guess'.  Oh, wait. They used highly advanced computer models... excuse me for being so rude.  Have you ever heard of the phrase, "garbage in, garbage out?"

 

Regardless, methane and other 'greenhouse gases' are irrelevant as I just showed you that the greenhouse theory doesn't work.

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post #29 of 51

Think of the Sun as a battery and the Earth as a light bulb.  The two are connected via a copper wire that delivers the battery's energy to the light bulb, thus powering it.  Replace that copper wire with a silver one and what happens?  With silver being the better conductor of electricity, you now need less power to push the same amount of energy (or more) across the conduit.  It's how basic electrical systems work and the only thing that needs proving is the existence of the plasma cloud, which NASA has done.  The rest can be deduced from logic.  It could even be proven 100% if you can convince NASA to put the proper measuring satellites in orbit.

 

The greenhouse gas theory, on the other hand, is illogical no matter which way you view it.

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post #30 of 51

those last 2 posts are the most ridiculous i've ever seen on global warming

post #31 of 51

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post #32 of 51

I'd really like to know why you think those posts are ridiculous. 

 

I think we need to back up a few steps before we go any further.  Let's do this with the following question:  Do you believe that warm water produces hurricanes?  More specifically, the warmer the water, the more powerful the hurricane?

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post #33 of 51
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Originally Posted by Zero Cool View Post

Believing in man-caused global warming is like believing that warm water produces hurricanes.  It's moronic.

 

 



Next up will be about how the gasses from cows and cow crap do it....ohyeah.gif

 

The biggest issue with this section is 1- too many people are sheep and don't question something if "the powers that be" say they are fact and 2- TOO MANY post after a couple prost.gif...drinks

post #34 of 51


 

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Originally Posted by Zero Cool View Post

I'd really like to know why you think those posts are ridiculous. 

 

I think we need to back up a few steps before we go any further.  Let's do this with the following question:  Do you believe that warm water produces hurricanes?  More specifically, the warmer the water, the more powerful the hurricane?

 

Warm water doesn't produce hurricanes, but they are a factor in increasing the strength of tropical storms. There's a lot of factors in weather and storm development, there will be cases where a hurricane going over warm water will not intensify as much if other factors work against it. However, it has been empirically proven that warmer water tends to produce bigger hurricanes.

post #35 of 51
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Originally Posted by wikipedia.su View Post


 

 

Warm water doesn't produce hurricanes, but they are a factor in increasing the strength of tropical storms. There's a lot of factors in weather and storm development, there will be cases where a hurricane going over warm water will not intensify as much if other factors work against it. However, it has been empirically proven that warmer water tends to produce bigger hurricanes.

 

Good.  You have somewhat of a clue. 

 

Actually, warm water has almost no strengthening effect, if any, on hurricanes.   They are electrical storms affected by dozens of factors, most of which are electrical and have little to do with atmospheric pressures and ocean temperatures.   A hurricane's form is due to a particular basis that is necessary for the existence of such a storm.   Positively-charged ions move over the ocean surface and are drawn up the eye of the hurricane where they meet the negatively-charged ions from the ionosphere, thus completing the electrical circuit.  When the positive ions move over the ocean they draw moisture with them, which is condensed at high altitudes as it spills over the top of the eye wall.  This creates the characteristic look of a hurricane. 

 

I have a diagram that I want to show you, but I don't have a scanner.  I could probably draw it in paint, but I am forewarning you that it would be pathetic.  Regardless, if you want to see it I'll take the time to draw it up. 

 

But I digress...

 

I'm simply trying to show you that the solar system is electric and therefore our weather is electric too.  All of our weather is ultimately driven by the Sun, including global warming.

 

 

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post #36 of 51

I'd also like to add that even if we do make the dangerous assumption that Earth weather is static, it is impossible to determine what the baseline for solar weather is going back hundreds of millions or billions of years.  This is why man-caused global warming cannot be proven.  We simply don't know what the long-term mean of the solar system is.

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post #37 of 51

this entire thread is science vs "shit zerocool made up", there's no point having a discussion about science if one side willfully ignores facts

 

Here's how hurricanes actually form:

 

http://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/natural-disasters/hurricane2.htm

post #38 of 51

I didn't make this stuff up.  This is all based on what I've learned from a physicist who is far more intelligent than either of us.  I'll tell you who it is, but you can't go google him because every paid shill out there will try to "debunk" him.  You'll have to buy his book and do the math out yourself, but I know you won't do that.  

 

If hurricanes only formed over tropical waters then we wouldn't see hurricanes in the Arctic Circle or on the polar caps of Mars (where there isn't even any water).   That alone tells you that "science" is at least somewhat wrong. 

 

NASA purposefully withholds information to maintain its power over the space field.  If you don't realize this then you're a lost cause.  It's the same principle of military working on top secret projects and not talking about them because they would potentially lose power if they were to do so.   There are three tiers of science and unfortunately we're on the bottom.   The real science is at the top and we don't ever hear about it. 

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post #39 of 51
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Originally Posted by Zero Cool View Post

I didn't make this stuff up.  This is all based on what I've learned from a physicist who is far more intelligent than either of us.  I'll tell you who it is, but you can't go google him because every paid shill out there will try to "debunk" him.  You'll have to buy his book and do the math out yourself, but I know you won't do that.  

 

If hurricanes only formed over tropical waters then we wouldn't see hurricanes in the Arctic Circle or on the polar caps of Mars (where there isn't even any water).   That alone tells you that "science" is at least somewhat wrong. 

 

NASA purposefully withholds information to maintain its power over the space field.  If you don't realize this then you're a lost cause.  It's the same principle of military working on top secret projects and not talking about them because they would potentially lose power if they were to do so.   There are three tiers of science and unfortunately we're on the bottom.   The real science is at the top and we don't ever hear about it. 

 

Hurricanes move you know? 

 

You seem far too wrapped up in what NASA have to say (or what they apparently don't say in your case). Ever heard of those things that scientists come up with?...oh yeah theories! Yep people other than NASA are allowed to have them. A theory is then published in a journal for other scientists to read and do experiments on a theory and then when everyone gets on nicely and agrees it's generally becomes a scientific fact.....back to basics and all. 

 

Oh and polar caps are water? Ice is still oxygen held together with hydrogen bonds. 

 

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post #40 of 51

ok cool a mysterious physicist who you won't name proved the entire scientific community wrong. this is a thought-provoking discussion icon_rolleyes.gif

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