ethics, who needs em?

[bmxrider724]

this is not a debate about religion. first off. if evolution is true, then we are just evolved animals, thats all. obviously animals dont have a sense of right or wrong, because their instincts carry them along. if we are just a more complex form of an animal, what moral guidelines should we have? in the animal world we observe that animals do whatever they have to do suceed and get ahead, if evolution is true shoudnt that be the law for us? why have laws? the animals dont have laws? now im not saying go out and kill a bunch of ppl im just saying how come we have laws if it makes so much sense that we evolved over billions of years from a single cell something or other. and if we are just evolved animals and there is no heaven or hell, then that means there is no greater purpose to life then living the best you can. idk i just think thats pretty depressing. please comment, i wanna know the answers to these questions, heres a little bit of information for you. a teacher that tought evolution once said "i know that evolution is immposible, but i teach it because it is morally acceptable" when asked why he said this he replied "as long as i think i am nothing but an evolved animal, then i cant act how i choose. the minute i begin to belive that there is a god then i become morally responsible to that god, and frankly i dont wanna be morally responsible to anyone"

[Aceman]

The truth is, if we all just did what we needed to do to survive, none of us would be here today.

How often have you seen a person just living all by themself, cut off completely? you dont. Humans are always organized into families, tribes, cities, towns, kingdoms, you name it.

Humans, as do all apes, survive best as a group. Naturally groups that work well togeather flourish, while groups that cannot cooporate die off. The ones that can get along survive to pass on this behavior. Certain guidelines evolved to help groups of apes to get along, and therefore survive. These codes of behavior are what gives us our sense of right and wrong. Think about it, almost all "correct" or "good" moral choices we make almost always have to do with more than yourself. While "corrupt" and "bad" moral decisions have to do with putting your needs before the needs of others. As we evolved, the guidelines for behavior necessary to survive evolved as well and became more complex. Those who behave in a manner beneficial to the group survive to pass those traits on to the next generation.

In a way, one might conclude that "right" and "wrong" our encoded in our very DNA.

Just think about how helpless you are when you're born. Without the help of others(your mother; your family; ect.) you would surely have died. If people behaved in a way helpful only to themselves, no offspring would survive to carry on the species.

Our "morals" may be much more complex than those of ou ape ancestors, but the same fundamental principles apply.

Evolution, in a way; takes care of and explains itself.

[fairtrade]

"Morals" can be split up into either constructive, and destructive, simple as that. We should keep the constructive ones.

Of course, they usually have a mix of de/constructive effects of various magnitudes, which is why the world is kinda a shithole nowadays.

[Aceman]

exactly. It started out as something necessary to survive, but now, since everything is soo much more complicated, it became possible to survive without them. This leads to people practicing for the wrong reasons(like religion*****) and many more not practicing good morals at all. And as a result, we get our ****ed up world where everything is all FUBAR and everyone fights with everyone else.

***** this is just MY personal view, im not here to argue or be converted, and I mean no offence to people who do believe in religion.

[bmxrider724]

you guys didnt comment on anything else then the first 2 sentances. i want reactions to all of it. if i could that would be sweet.

[fairtrade]

Bah, you asked for it. I only noticed those questions, because you forgot to use paragraphs.


this is not a debate about religion. first off. if evolution is true, then we are just evolved animals, thats all. obviously animals dont have a sense of right or wrong, because their instincts carry them along. if we are just a more complex form of an animal, what moral guidelines should we have?

in the animal world we observe that animals do whatever they have to do suceed and get ahead, if evolution is true shoudnt that be the law for us? why have laws? the animals dont have laws?

now im not saying go out and kill a bunch of ppl im just saying how come we have laws if it makes so much sense that we evolved over billions of years from a single cell something or other. and if we are just evolved animals and there is no heaven or hell, then that means there is no greater purpose to life then living the best you can.

idk i just think thats pretty depressing. please comment, i wanna know the answers to these questions, heres a little bit of information for you. a teacher that tought evolution once said "i know that evolution is immposible, but i teach it because it is morally acceptable" when asked why he said this he replied "as long as i think i am nothing but an evolved animal, then i cant act how i choose. the minute i begin to belive that there is a god then i become morally responsible to that god, and frankly i dont wanna be morally responsible to anyone"


A) We are not just evolved animals, we are sapient beings, and we have morals because we don't NEED to kill each other, and such. And you do know what instinct means? I'm guessing not, because that you wouldn't have said that. An instinct is just an ingrained version of right and wrong, simple as that.

B) Is this not the case with the world right now? Natural selection happens. You drink, you die of liver failure early, you smoke, you die of cancer, you have an aggressive life, you die violently and early, you deal in drugs, and they waste you, and the number one cause, you get greedy, people decide to strap bombs to themselves and blow you and some innocent civillians into pieces. Law is just a more verbose version of instinct. The animals do have laws. Their instincts are their laws. You just don't see animals breaking them, becuase when they do, they die. Simple natural selection.

C) Nobody is saying we all came from a single cell. What makes you think evolution has to be separated from religion as if they are opposites? What greater purpose to life is there, apart from living the best you can? ("Living the best you can" pretty much covers being good so you'll go to heaven or vice versa, in any case - no argument).

D) The teacher is wrong. He doesn't KNOW that Evolution is impossible. He simply thinks so. As for the second quote from the same teacher, fair enough - if he believes that he has no responsibility because he is just an advanced animal, nobody cares. We just expect that he won't either, when he's frying on the electric chair after committing murder. Besides, the Kansas state board of Education is responsible for trying to dictate that Pi = 3, just so it can go along with the bible (never mind that they were probably referring to the inner walls of the building compared to the outer diameter, let's try to change an unchangeable constant :roll:).

[JonJon4420]

there is no true right or wrong if some one commits murder he commits murder and if its right to him its right to him, for others its right to incarcerate him, which is also right.

no human or animal has any right to say what is right or wrong for another, that said since we are all conciouse of ourselves and others. we shouldnt harm, help or judge others unless they ask or unless we want to. hence please and thank you or sorry are redundant. you do what you want and others do what they want nobody can say otherwise. there is no right or wrong there just IS period.

ps there is only right because if it was wrong it wouldnt BE.

i still think fairtrade put it best

[babelfish42]

I believe everyone, that is of sound mind, has their own set of morals, and that societal "norms" which have been codified into law are just the mean of the population's morals. I also believe animal love should be legal, but that's another story.

[JonJon4420]

. I also believe animal love should be legal, but that's another story.

i agree but as long as your girth is proportionate to the animal your lovintg. dont go around brutalising chickens. thats abusive.

[slowr6]

I believe in evolution. I think it sounds a whole lot more believable than the whole adam and eve thing. Plus all the stuff in the bible, like noahs arc, and all that other stuff that is way more unbelievable than evolution.

[billytalentisshweet]

It doesn't say anywhere in the bible that evolution isn't possible. And Adam and Eve are metaphorical. As are most stories in the bible.

I personally think its plausable, haven't given much thought to it though.

[MCHardmanUK]

Until someone proves to me god exsists I'll believe science.

I can't stand religion its one of tetings the world could without, to make thins worse I have to do ym school practise in a catolic school and I'm refusing point blankly to teac religion, go to curch or sit in religious assemblies, which I have the right to do.

Ban religious schools, it promotes segregation and its no wonder we ive in such a diveided society.

[asd]

Until someone proves to me god exsists I'll believe science.

Untill someone proves science to me, I'll believe in God.


there is no true right or wrong if some one commits murder he commits murder and if its right to him its right to him, for others its right to incarcerate him, which is also right.


And who says that one persons "right" is more "right" than another person's "right"? Why should we be able to kill someone for doing "right"?

I've read some pretty messed up things in this thread...